Civilian Sniper Rifles?
July 22nd, 2010 by eranio
I am interested in getting a rifle, more for long range target shooting than hunting. I’m thinking .308 or .338 Lapua. Any comments on Caliber and/or grain would be most welcome.
I have shot plenty before, but haven’t done much long range shooting with a scope. My question is, if I get a rifle like a Remington 700, or a Ruger M77 Hawkeye, should I be able to hit targets beyond 1,000 yds? I believe that it’s the shooter not the gun that makes the difference.
Any advice on ammo, optics, technique, or rifles is welcome!
Thanks!
Posted in sniper rifle
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
That’s a good one… haha
The Remington is capable of hitting a target at 1,000 yards but that’ll take plenty of practice to do, and your ammunition will ultimately be the most important factor in this since almost any brand of bolt-action rifle manufacturer can have their rifles upgraded in the future if necessary.
I have a Remington 700 in .308, which is about as close to the US Military and Police Force’s M324 and M40a1/a3 sniper rifles as you can get in the civilian market- they’re the same rifle although modified slightly.
For the .308, you have a huge selection of ammunition choices in terms of both manufacturer and weight. I prefer to use ammo from Black Hills, Hornady, Federal or Remington with 150gr or higher. 180gr is my normal size.
The .30-06 is a little bit longer-reaching, but your choice of bullets is significantly smaller, and I still prefer the .308 especially if you don’t plan on hunting with it.
The biggest problems with the .338 Lapua is that 1, it’s much more expensive to buy ammo (and rifles for that matter) and also that they’re very hard to find. Many stores don’t even stock them. If you’re just target shooting, it’s really way too uneconomical, but definitely easier to hit that 1,000 yard objective.
For optics, almost anything that magnifies maybe 3-12x or 3-14x should work, and I don’t have a personal preference as long as the scope has mil-dots (if you don’t know what those are, you probably shouldn’t be investing in a long rifle) and will last a long time. I have experience with both an Alaskan Guide and a Nikon, both of which are excellent scopes. The Leupold brand is also noteworthy, and there’s also a German brand called Zeiss (I think or something like that) that my uncle highly recommends, but both of those will cost more and for scopes, it isn’t always about getting what you pay for.
My personal recommendation:
- Any variant of the Remington 700 that chambers a .308, .30-06, .300 Magnum or Ultra Magnum
- Any Cabelas/Alaskan Guide, Nikon, Leupold or (Zeiss) scope
- Black Hills ammunition because it’s very good quality but cheaper than Federal and sometimes Hornady, which are the other two high-grade brands. Remington is also good if you’re just out shooting targets because it’s mid-upper quality and generally cheaper than the other three.
- For technique, at the ranges you’re looking at, I’d also look into a bi-pod (Harris specifically) and if you’re not already an experienced shooter, you’ll definitely want to get some experience with easier rifles such as a Ruger .22 or Mini-14 before tackling a high-powered beast. Experience with handguns and shotguns is virtually worthless here.
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
" I believe that it’s the shooter not the gun that makes the difference."
You got that mostly right. The models you mention should shoot close to 1 MOA
‘right out of the box’.
"targets beyond 1,000 yds?" is a pretty deep game though.
You will want a heavy barrel model with a premium trigger, and a high quality scope
offering 16-24x magnification.
Wind doping, accurate ranging, and knowing your trajectory are critical.
Work up to it slowly. The .308 is marginal at that range.
You’ll want to throw a heaver bullet a bit faster.
Try an ’06′ with handloads or a 300 Mag.
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
You’re thinking in terms, military terms.
When you buy your .308 savage or Remington (brands I would recommend) buy models that suit your purpose. Some are "tactical" or military/police intended and some hunter or recreation intended.
Go to the shop and ask for a long range rifle.
the rifles that will do it for you are the Remington 700 or Savage 10FP
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
I’d go with a Remington 700 SPS or, if money wasn’t an option, one made by their custom shop. I’d choose one in .300 Mag because it would be cheaper to feed than the .338 and would be work better than the .308 at distance.
With years of dedication and practice you will be able to consistently hit targets. Just don’t expect to do it right away.
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
I purchased a Rem 700 SPS Varmint in .308 for my son last fall. He is interested in shooting long distances. With 168 gr hand loaded ammo, he gets touching bullet holes at 100 yds. We are getting decent at 400 yds with it. I think it will be able to perform out to at least 800 yds, and by then we will probably have the barrel worn out and be seeking a different rifle.
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
MM – A rifle used by a Sniper would be a Sniper Rifle….or would it??? I think we need a Sniper to answer this question.
@ M.M. – I’m wrong more often than I am right, but thats a secret so don’t tell my wife. She thinks I am right all the time…or does she??? LOL!!!
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
there is no such thing as a sniper rifle…………………
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
going off what MM and merc said i believe its a rifle but if a trained sniper has it and is using it then it becomes a "sniper’s rifle" anyways…
ammo wise id recomdend custom handloads tailored to you gun and getting the most out of it.
scope wise i personally would go with the best leupold or sightron scope i could afford.
rifle id go with a rem700 but if price aint an issue mcmillan makes some high end rifles, i have no clue how they are as far as acruacy but im sure theyre not horrible.
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
Skip all the american crap. American rifles are NOT and NEVER will be as good as a german made weapon. If you think I’m wrong then why do special forces use Heckler & Koch USP’s over the preferred Beretta OR choose H&K’s new .556 over the Colt M4? You could find a world war 2 k98 with all the swastikas "scrubbed" for around $300 and its going to shoot 1,000 yards for sure. On top of that you’re shooting a massive 8mm Mauser round. Now believe it or not people the .30 06 is a superb round and I’m not dogging it at all, BUT that round was made because our boys didn’t have anything that could match the power of the 8mm mauser and the .30 06 was born
It was THE bolt action rifle ALL of the american bolt action rifles were modeled after. You just can’t beat it. If you really want to save some $$$ get a russian mosin nagant from ww2 that caliber is a 7.62x54r and boy does that kick! They have some excellent rifles perfect for scoping and whats great about these old rifles is that they won’t break down on you! Plus you have a piece of history! I love america alot but we have alot to step up to in terms of quality firearms. I just got rid of my last american gun which was a Smith & Wesson 686 .357 I was just not impressed with it at all. Total waste of money if you ask me. I should have stuck with a .44 magnum instead. I have two hk usp .45′s and i haven’t had ONE issue with either of them, not ONE issue with any of my german k98′s either. Look at it this way. These rifles are over 60 years old and they’re still grouping under 3" with IRON SIGHTS at 300 yards. now that isn’t bad if you ask me! I’ll list some reliable places below. I am sure alot of you will disagree with me as you have every right to because we are all titled to each’s opinion. Hope that helps bud! The point is, is that you could spend several hundred dollars less on a really nice used war rifle that will appreciate in some value overtime while your american rifle is just going to stay or drop its value depending on what you buy.
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
Noreen ULR’s are the most affordable long range rifles on the market. With Barret’s starting around $4000 the price tag on these rifles is very modest. They are available in .338 .416 barret .408cheytect .50bmg and maybe a few other calibers.
The current record for the longest confirmed kill was made with a .338 Lapua in Afghanistan in 2009. It was about 2,707 yards or around 2 miles. British snipers use the Accuracy International Rifle which retails for as much as Toyota
Some show on the discovery channel rated the Cheytech intervention as the top "sniper rifle"/platform, but this system costs around $13,000. And that was prior to the release of the barret .416 I do believe.
Below I also have a link to a webpage that talks about affordable equipment to use on a Noreen ULR rifle that will cut the cost of shooting alot.
And the Remington 700 suggested by many is always a good choice. .308 is much cheaper to shoot then any long range caliber.
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
A military rifle made for the purpose of sniping is a sniper rifle, it doesnt need to be in a snipers hands. When I see an arisaka, 98k, or mosin etc that is scoped (with the correct scope and is the correct rifle), I call it a sniper rifle. There are many snipers out there, if you want a cheap one, get a M91/30 sniper, but get one with sniper markings, some unscrupulous sellers will slap soviet scopes onto old M91/30s and call them a sniper, proceed with caution when buying collector items, study study study before shelling out serious cash. A Remington 700 would be a scoped hunting rifle unless it were US Gov property marked, then it would be a sniper rifle. It is the shooter not the gun, unless the gun is absolute crap. I like the heavier and hotter stuff for long range shooting.
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 am
I am a retired military long range competition shooter.
You need to start at 200, 300 and 600 yards the first year or two of spending every weekend at the rifle range before you can even consider moving to 1,000. Most shooting of this nature is done in NRA Highpower Rifle Competition where you are shooting 200,300 and 600 with AR-15′s, M1a’s and M1 Garrands in ‘as issued’ condition with open sights – no scope.
The day comes you can keep all 20 slow fire rounds from 600 inside the 9 ring with most of them 10′s and lots of X’s – then you can move to 1,000. You need a match rifle that still has a match barrel with less than 2,000 rounds fired in it, and nice HPBT Match ammo – and lots of experience reading the wind to do well at 600.
You cannot use a Rem 700 or Hawkey in NRA Highpower Rifle – only the three mentioned above.
I have a Rem 700 in 308 and a 1 year old Hawkeye in 223. I was totally blown away how well bedded the Hawkeye was from the factory – the stock matched the receiver like a glove – it only took a few drops of AccraGlass to bed it. I tapped the muzzle 1/2-28tpi for a TLG Suppressor and added a nice Millet 4-16x tactical scope…….. I paid less than $500 for the Hawkeye and this is my winter varmint rifle so I don’t have to beat up a nice AR-15. At 200 yards with the suppressor on the Hawkey makes little .30" cloverleaf groups of five. Mind you – I paid almost $200 for a trigger job on my other Ruger 77 back in 1992 ……. and this new Hawkeye trigger was just as nice from the factory.
All that – and you are not gonna be getting many X’s and 10′s at 600 yard shooting ammo off your local store shelf – unless theys stock Federal Gold Medal Match and you have lots and lots of $$$ to burn. Nearly every long distance shooter I know – if they are military they shoot 308 and get match ammo from the military – or they handload.
For the AR-15 and long distance – 600 is hard enough with hot loaded match 69gr ammo or 77gr ammo. For anything beyond 600 – you should be looking at the 308, 300 Win Mag, or 338 Win Mag. The 338 Lapua is over rated – nothing the Lapua does you can’t duplicate with a 338 Win Mag and handloads.