Does anyone know the regulations or laws regarding personal firearms??
I need to know the regulations that govern the company level commander’s discretion on issuing orders to a soldier who owns a firearm off of and away from military installations to have that firearm placed in the custody of the arms room. I currently own a firearm (pistol) and i do not bring it onto military installations nor do i keep it in military housing. The firearm is stored off post at a civilian housing complex with my buddy. This is because the commander refuses to approve the on post registration form, so i keep it at a friends house off post so that i am following the regulation. Now i have been instructed to have it placed in the arms room and that i will not have access to it at all. This does not seem fair. I feel like i am having the firearm stolen from me. He believes that soldiers have no business owning firearms and he will not approve anyone to have one. Does anybody know anything about the legality of this issue??
Posted in military firearms
February 12th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Commander has authority on a lot of things if in question contact JAG / Legal and see what they say.
Vet-USAF
February 12th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
My money rides with your commander.
February 12th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
There is no legality, unfortunately. The company commander can order your firearm to the arms room if you live on post. You can always check it in and out to go to the range and for cleaning.
But, you have no rights here.
February 12th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Go and speak with an on-base JAG for the answers to those questions. This CO should not allow his fears or opinions of weapons, personal or otherwise to rule his judgement. That is what it sounds like is happening. By speaking with the JAG on base, you will have a clear and concise explaination of the law concerning your personal weapon, and how it must be stored, etc. If your CO still refuses to follow the law, take it to the next level. I would start with the SGM rather than the BN CMDR, but that is the next step. Go to the JAG first so you know EXACTLY what you can and cannot do. Once you have your ducks all lined up, then go to BN.
February 12th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Talk to the ARMS room NCO and get the regulation about storing private weapons from him. It will explain the procedure.
If that doesn’t work out speak with JAG.
February 12th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
If the guns are off base he has no say in the matter. He can only control them if you bring them on base. Keep them at your buddy house. If the issue is pressed any further tell him you sold them. Don’t at no time bring them on base. I would let the matter quietly die down
February 12th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
A military commander that doesn’t trust his soldiers with weapons… Scary, I guess you guys would only get bullets if people were actually shooting at you eh?
Seriously, from his perspective, I am sure he thinks the time it takes to secure the fire arm from the arm’s room is enough time to internally check your intentions and cause you to rethink your actions. Soldiers can run a little hot under the collar at times, especially with their wives getting into trouble while soldiers are gone. Soldiers can also be under artificial mental stress, or angry at other soldiers.
Bottom line, is that a commonly accepted fact that Soldiers do some pretty stupid things, sometimes. Keep in mind that you are the graduate of a program which purpose was to train you to kill efficiently and even with less compunction. This, I AM SURE, is on his mind when making policy decisions. Maybe you, not having ready access to your personal weapon will save a life, maybe even your own. Even cause you to learn to walk-away. Talk to the 1st SGT or the CSM about it, but I can agree with his policy decision.
As for you allowing "a buddy" to keep physical control of a firearm registered to you… I’ve got about a dozen reasons why that’s just an all around bad idea. Check your weapon into the arms room, and take care.
February 12th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
We had a commander who kind of tried the same thing. It’s a very touchy situation, as he doesn’t have any jurisdiction off base, but he is your commander. I kept a couple of guns for one of my buddies that lived on base. Your commander can definitely tell you to store it in the armory if you live on base. I would tell him you sold it, and that’s that. Kind of funny that alot of times your constitutional rights don’t apply to the men and women who are fighting for it!
February 12th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Heres the deal.
If you reside on post, the commander can order you to have your weapon put in the unit armsroom.
AR 190-11 "Commanders will ensure privately–owned arms and ammunition (including authorized war trophies) are protected on their installations and facilities. Commanders will—
(1) Secure arms and ammunition belonging to Soldiers living on the installation in the installation armory or unit
arms rooms in approved locked containers separate from the military AA&E. Storage requirements in this regulation
apply."
As for him not signing you registration form for your weapon, he is require to do so, even if he wants it stored in the armsroom. Every POW that enters a military installation must be regitered with the PMO (Provost Marshalls Office) within 72 hours of the Service Members arrival. If the POW is not registed by that time, the POW must be turned over to the MP station to be stored until registration is complete.
Long story short, if he wants it stored in the armsroom, it has to be registered on post. If you try rolling through the gate with it, and they search your vehicle, find the weapon, and it isnt registered, you are going to the be paying a visit to a small concrete box atleast for the day.
As for your commander not authorizing anyone to have firearms, and not allowing them to sign them out,
"Personnel keeping or storing privately–owned arms and ammunition (including authorized war trophies) on
military installation will—
(4) Withdraw privately–owned weapons and ammunition from the unit arms rooms only upon approval of the unit
commander or the commander’s authorized representative."
He can by all means do this. But to say if he tells all members of your unit to turn thier weapons in to the unit armsroom, and doesnt let them take them out, go see IG.
If he only makes you turn in your weapons and wont allow you to sign them out, deffinetly go see IG.
Hope this helps you out.
February 12th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
If you live off base you would not be having this problem.
If you live ON BASE you have to live by their rules. However, if he thinks his order is legal and valid, he should be willing to issue the order in writing. First, get it in writing.
Then, you have five possible solutions.
1. Sign the gun into the arms room as ordered.
2. Sell the gun out right. No gun = no problem.
3. Sell the gun to your father for $1 then hold it for him. The guy can not order your father to store the gun in the arms room. You can still keep it at your friends.
4. Move off base and keep the gun at your home.
5. Respectfully tell the company commander (a Captain?) in front of a witness that you wish to speak to his commander about the subject as you do not feel his order is neither legal nor Constitutional.
Then go to his Commander and outline your objections.
(Here are some points to make…..
Even in the service you have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms and that means being able to go practice with them.
Is the more senior commander even aware his subordinate commander is doing this?
The policy should be a base policy so that it is consistent for the entire unit and base.
Letting a low ranking company commander make such decisions may beyond his authority as a company commander and the senior commander may stomp on it right away.
Point out that if you can not be trusted to safely exercise your Constitutional right, then how can they trust you with whatever it is you do as your duty assignment?
You feel strongly about this and if the more senior commander agrees with the company commander, you would like to pursue the discussion up the chain.
Then go to HIS commander.
If at any time someone denies you the right to go up the chain, then you ask for the order in writing so you will have it documented for the JAG office. Then go to the JAG office.