Have U.S. military weapons downgraded in the last 50 years?
March 7th, 2010 by eranio
We went from the reliable, accurate, and hard hitting M14 to the less accurate, less reliable, and weaker AR platform. Then we went from the 1911 45ACP to the Beretta M9 9mm. We dropped the 7.62 M60 (That some Navy SEAL units still use) for the 5.56 M249 SAW. After all of these were replaced, Special ops guys still clamored for them. These guys are usually the ones to be using the newest and best equipment but in these cases they seem to want to take a step back.
Posted in military weapons
March 7th, 2010 at 7:57 am
I agree with some of what you are saying. In my opinion going from the M14 to the original AR15 was a step down, however with the modern improvements this is not so. I don’t think the US should necessarily put the M14 back to standard issue usage but a new 308 battlefield rifle would be an improvement. I agree with your statement about the 1911 to the Beretta. Police forces may use the 9mm, but they are not limited to FMJ ammunition either. The new FNH 45 would fill the Beretta’s role nicely. As for the M60 to M249 I don’t think it was that much of a downgrade. I have a friend who was in the Marine Corps in Iraq and he carried an M60. He never complained about the weight, but I don’t think he liked it that much. One his 2nd tour he carried an M4 and a rocket launcher.
March 7th, 2010 at 7:57 am
The 5.56 M249 is used in the Squad Automatic Weapon role and occasionally as a light Machine Gun. It’s a matter of carrying it. You’re forgetting the M240 which replaced the M60 in the medium machine gun role which is still 7.62 and AWESOME.
Weapons are going to changed based on what are believed to be the greatest tactical need and most combat effectiveness. The ability to carry more ammo in the rifle and the ability for "smaller handed soldiers" (aka females) to shoot a pistol accurately was deemed more important than the larger caliber benefits. While I don’t agree with the choice to downgrade to 5.56 and 9mm it obviously hasn’t been the end of the world. We’ve survived over 40 years and 25 years respectively on each.
March 7th, 2010 at 7:57 am
Fuck all these pieces of shit. Bring back the god damn musket bitch.
March 7th, 2010 at 7:57 am
The change in weaponry was in response to the changing dynamics of war. It was found that the standard rifle cartridge was much too powerful for the average soldier’s situation. Most engagement take place within 300 yards and in Vietnam the bullet to kill ratio was about 500000:1 the .223 and 9×19 are much cheaper to produce than the 7.62 nato and .45acp not to mention that these also allowed for more ammunition to be carried theoretically increasing the effectiveness of a soldier.
The M60 was not considered to be a very good design when it was fist introduced because of it’s long and complicated cleaning process ( a lot like the BAR and M1919a4/a6 it was supposed to replace) though current versions are better.
Originally the AR was supposed to be for guard duty as well as a carbine. The M14 is an excellent weapon but it is a classic styled rifle not well suited fro urban/intermediate combat and not well suited for automatic fire. The AR platform is better suited for what the army thought the average soldier would face in battle and has generally performed well in combat if well maintained.
Spec ops Guys tend to pick reliability over anything else since they are expected to away from supply lines for days at a time and are trained to conserve ammunition anyway unlike the average grunt.
The army really should have gotten the contract with the XM8 since it solved all the problems of the AR platform except knockdown power which could be solved with a remembering.
March 7th, 2010 at 7:57 am
The transfer over from the M14 – the M16 Family was done for more than one reason. You can carry more ammo, the M16 is lighter, however I don’t know if they did some upgrades to the m14 if it would still be lighter or not. Overall I’m not a fan of the m16. But some of your information is incorrect. The M60 wasn’t replaced by the M249, the M249 filled a gap. Unless you had to pack a M60 or a M240B you have no room to talk. Both these weapons loaded are heavy. If you are dismount with one and your a regular sized medium built guy, you know not a giant. These weapons will slow your whole crew down due to their weight. Yes the firepower is there but it sucks to tug one around and we aren’t all in sf shape. Plus you have an assistant gunner to help with ammo. The 240B is a much better platform than the M60. The 249 fills it’s roll nicely with more firepower to dismount squads without slowing them down quite as much as a 240B. Yes your lacking firepower that the 240 can supply but what you lack with a 249 you can make up in rate of fire and ammunition seeing how both the M16-M4 use 5.56 x 45 mm which is the same as the 249. The 249 also has a mag port so in a bad scenario you can use the 30 rnd mag on it, however the standard issued mags jam it up nicely. I recommend a magpull or h&k magazine if you were to try this.
As for the 1911, no I’m not happy to see it go, however I don’t have a pistol either way, and a shotty clears rooms just fine. I hope they come out with something a little more hard hitting than a 5.56mm but at the same time, I can make it work.
So what about grenade launchers? Your saying by going from the M79 to the 203 then the 203 to the 320, which is what I have attached to my weapon we’re downgrading as well? Key points, M249 fills it’s role nicely, 240 is better than the m60. M16 series not the best weapon out there but not the worst either. M14 good weapon, but you can’t live in the past. 1911 good weapon, but has it’s downsides as well. Only 7 + 1 max unless you have an extended mag plus it’s a heavier larger pistol which plus berreta has a nice saftey. You think thats worthless till you see people with negligent discharges around here with simple weapons. M9 weaker round but has a few more to back it up. Police forces around the world and military use it. Good saftey system. I mean gotta take the good w/ the bad.