Here’s the question, how has your luck been with 20 gauge slugs on deer in the past? Say out of a mod-choked 23" bbl? I would like to know the farthest distance you have successfully taken deer at, your preferred ammunition, and what you would consider the limits to be of your preferred ammunition.

Ok, I am going to throw in another question just for the heck of it. So we have had many questions about military rifles, and their use in military combat, the past few days from a certain member of YA! that I have always tried to be nice to and give my best answer to when they asked a question that I felt I could answer. My question is this, do you think that people should post military questions (which contain no hunting references in them) in the hunting forum and then we should get them banned for continually posting in the wrong section? Or what would you consider to be proper course of action to help better the YA! hunting forum?
Thank you Tahoe. To clarify, I am referring to the questions that are talking about the use of those firearms in combat situations, which have no hunting situations or implications.

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The NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT was passed in 1934 and HEAVILY restricted several classes of weapons.
The Act defines a number of categories of regulated firearms. These weapons are collectively known as NFA firearms and include the following:

Machine guns – this includes any firearm which can fire more than 1 cartridge per trigger pull. Both continuous fully-automatic fire and "burst fire" (i.e., firearms with a 3-round burst feature) are considered machine gun features. The weapon’s receiver is by itself considered to be a regulated firearm. Courts have held that where a worn firearm malfunctions in such a way as to fire multiple cartridges one or more times, this makes it a machine gun.

Short barreled rifles (SBRs) – this category includes any firearm with a buttstock and either a rifled barrel under 16" long or an overall length under 26". The overall length is measured with any folding or collapsing stocks in the extended position. The category also includes firearms which came from the factory with a buttstock that was later removed by a third party.

Short barreled shotguns (SBSs) – this category is defined similarly to SBRs, but the length limit for the barrel is 18" instead of 16", and the barrel must be a smoothbore. The minimum overall length limit remains 26".

Suppressors – this includes any portable device designed to muffle or disguise the report of a portable firearm. This category does not include non-portable devices, such as sound traps used by gunsmiths in their shops which are large and usually bolted to the floor.

Destructive Devices (DDs) – there are two broad classes of destructive devices:

* Devices such as grenades, bombs, explosive missiles, poison gas weapons, etc.
* Any non-sporting firearm with a bore over 0.50", such as a 40mm grenade launcher often used in conjunction with military rifles. (Many firearms with bores over 0.50", such as 12-gauge shotguns, are exempted from the law because they have been determined to have a legitimate sporting use.)

Any Other Weapons (AOWs) – this is a broad "catch-all" category used to regulate any number of firearms which the ATF deems deserving of registration and taxation. Examples include, among others:

* Smooth-bore pistols
* Pen guns and cane guns
* A firearm with combinations smooth bore and rifle barrels 12 inches or more but less than 18 inches in length from which only a single shot can be made from either barrel.
* Disguised firearms
* Firearms that can be fired from within a wallet holster or a briefcase
* A short-barreled shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip is categorized as an AOW rather than a SBS, because the Gun Control Act describes a shotgun as “…designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder…”

* Handguns with a forward vertical grip. It is therefore illegal to place an aftermarket foregrip on any pistol without first registering it as an AOW and paying the 0 "making tax" imposed by the Act.

Violations of the Act are punishable by up to 10 years in federal prison and forfeiture of all devices or firearms in violation, and the individual’s right to own or possess firearms in the future. The Act provides for a penalty of ,000 for certain violations.[8] A willful attempt to evade or defeat a tax imposed by the Act is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison and a 0,000 fine (0,000 in the case of a corporation or trust), under the general tax evasion statute.[9] For an individual, the felony fine of 0,000 for tax evasion could be increased to 0,000.[10]

Someone mentioned on another question that gun control should be tighter because "Noone needs a machine gun!" Well I have good news for you, as stated above.

And semi-automatic (ONE ROUND PER TRIGGER PULL, AKA AUTO-LOADING) firearms are NOT easily converted to fully automatic!

Most current fully-automatic trigger groups will not fit their semi-automatic firearm look-alike counterparts – the semi-auto
automatic firearm look-alike counterparts – the semi-automatic version is specifically constructed to reject the fully-automatic trigger group by adding metal in critical places. This addition is required by the ATF to prevent easy conversion of Title I firearms into machine guns. Additionally, some fully-automatic trigger groups are also permanently modified in such a way that they can no longer be made to function as fully-automatic fire control devices. The ATF has listed required manufacturing procedures for modifying these fully-automatic trigger groups to make them into legal semi-automatic trigger-groups for civilian sales.

The Assault Weapons Ban had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS! The AWB banned certain rifles, shotguns, and handguns based on certain features, like pistol grips, folding stocks, bayonet lugs (As if there’s ever been a drive-by bayoneting HAHA)

The assault weapons ban was pointless because all it did was ban mostly cosmetic features tha
t have NOTHING to do with how the firearm operates!

Do you know really think that you can just go into a gun store and walk out with a machine gun?!
Natalie: Do you even know what you are talking about? Fully automatic weapons are not ENTIRELY banned, but STRICTLY regulated. You must have permission from the federal government!

Do you think those people want to risk up to 10 years in federal prison and forfeiture of all devices or firearms in violation, and the individual’s right to own or possess firearms in the future. The Act provides for a penalty of ,000 for certain violations. A willful attempt to evade or defeat a tax imposed by the Act is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison and a 0,000 fine (0,000 in the case of a corporation or trust), under the general tax evasion statute. For an individual, the felony fine of 0,000 for tax evasion could be increased to 0,000.

THERE IS NO LOOPHOLE!
And BTW, I am a SOCIALIST that believes in the right to keep and bear arms.
Wounded Duck:

PROVE IT!

How come my uncle who was a cop for over 25 years NEVER encountered a criminal with an illegal fully automatic weapon?

Most of the guns criminals have are crappy pot metal handguns like Jennings Lorcin, Bryco etc.

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I am a democrat and I don’t take offense to being called Liberal. I actually take the lable and own it. What I do take offense to is the Republican Party thinking they have cornered the market on Morality.

I am a Christian. –
I don’t believe my religion is the only one.

I don’t belive abortion should be used as birthcontrol.
I believe women should have all healthcare available to them.

I believe in a religion based education-
I don’t believe my neighbors should have to raise their children the way I believe.

I believe in gun ownership-
I don’t believe that military rifles should be available to the public.

I served my country in uniform, Army and Navy-
I don’t believe that is the only way to serve your country.

I don’t believe in a welfare state-
I do believe that in this great country if someone falls on hard times
after all the taxes they have paid a little assistance to get back on thier feet shouldn’t be too much to ask.

I don’t believe everyone should be able to get plastic surgery at my expense on free healthcare-
I do believe children should have full healthcare regardless of their parents financial situation and the elderly should never have to decide between the electric and medicine.

I believe MY country is the BEST in the world-
I don’t believe everyone else does or that everyone wants their
country to be just like mine.

I don’t believe teens should be having sex-
I do belive teenagers should be educated about sex.

I don’t believe in School vouchers-
I do believe the demise of our public school system is the
biggest threat to our country’s survival and national security.

I don’t believe in Gay marriage-
I belive that gay people should be afforded the same respect and
dignity afforded to heterosexuals in cases of health care and
parenting…either biological or adoptive.

These are just a few things, but I was wondering if anyone felt the same way I do.

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Ok I am just your average Joe I enjoy hunting fishing trapping, music, books of war stories, collecting military rifles from world war 2, I play on xbox live with my buddies I am a very caring person Im not one of those guys who pretends to listen to his girlfriend I actually listen. I’m about 5’8 about 180 pounds I have brown curly/wavy hair.I’m the classic nice guy but here’s the thing I’m a metalhead I usually ware a black t-shirt with ether a metallica or iron maiden logo I enjoy all kinds of metal except for that emo/screamo shit. Pardon my French I am not the kind of metalhead that is always a horny asshole ethier I do have a sense of humor
just curious

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I like old military rifles 4rus SKS, 3 Mos.N. M-44, 2 Mos. N 91/30
gun show is this weekend and I’d like to get an Enfield.

What do I look for, and how much should I plan on spending? I’m not to familiar with these, but I would like one. by the way I’m in Indiana.
add how much am I looking at $$$ as far as ammo? I’m not familiar with a forum for that.
Jeff it might see some hunting. thanks! I more just want one cause its a piece of history/collect, take apart toy, pass down to the kid, you know!

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I think they will buy guns when they grow up. Ten year old kids now can tell you all the different types of military rifles and pistols. Guns are very popular now. I would love if guns got so popular that you could get a concealed weapon permit in Los Angeles.

If I just mention hunting or guns in passing, (For example, one of our stories is called "Lil Arliss and the Bear") all the boys in the room suddenly have an ad hoc discussion about guns. Which I have to STOP or get in trouble with the principal/parents. And these are latino boys from economically depressed families. I get the Latino students because I can speak Spanish, and I get the English Language Learner Cluster. They cannot afford the best video games or toys. My room partner next door who (who HATES guns) has the gifted cluster, was complaining that all the video games make guns very glamourous to young boys. Apparently the children in the gifted cluster have every video game known to man.

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When I went to France and U.K., I don’t ever remember seeing any houses there. Just some old ugly apartment buildings. With some graffiti on some wall.

Many people are skinny. Cutting back on food.

And their cars… I don’t remember seeing porsche, cadillac, and some other fancy cars… All I saw were cheap funny looking small cars.

And their taxi drivers in London drive those old looking cars. It wasn’t yellow. Just black.

And the police officers were carrying big looking military rifles (AK-7?).
They were walking in and out of the metro train and in shopping places… they were everywhere everyday.

And I remember seeing many signs: Lottery, to win tickets to live in USA.. If their healthcare system is so good over there, why do they wanna live here in USA?
So… I guess Democrats want Socialism, right?

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I saw a Steyr 8×56 at a pawn shop for a little over 0 today. I have a 8MM Mauser, and I know the cartridges are different (8×57 vs 8×56), but I was wondering is these rifles are any good. I am beginning to collect old military rifles, and I was wondering if it would be a worthwhile addition.
Also, I’ve seen the guns on a few websites, but the ammo seems to be really scarce. And, a website I saw said that the gun requires a clip to load, and it was not included. Anybody know where I can get a clip?

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Is this a big deal to anyone? Just want to get some opinions. I have 12 guns, I have shotguns / single action cowboy guns / semi-auto rifles / carry guns older military rifles. I just like my guns, it’s one of my hobbies. That is why this is a big issue to me. Can somebody convince me that Obama will not be a gun grabber if he wins office? Here are some articles I found so far on Obama vs the Second Amendment.

Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
Keep guns out of inner cities–but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
h ttp://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama

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More of an opinion question really but I really want some advice on what my next gun should be. I currently have three Remington 870′s (2×12 Gauge Super Magnums, one 20 gauge), a Norinco SKS, and Remington 700 in .270 with an older Leupold Vari-X scope hanging on my bedroom wall. I’m nineteen years old and live in Virginia. The only guns that technically belong to me are the SKS and the 20 gauge 870. The rest all belong to my dad and I hunt occasionly and have all my duck, rabbit, squirrel, and whitetail needs covered.

My question is what type of firearm should I get that is under 0-0 in price. I enjoy all kinds of shooting but am most experienced with shooting milsurp rifles and 100-200 yard hunting and target shooting. I was strongly considering picking up a Mosin Nagant just for the sake of adding to my ComBloc collection of military rifles. Next would be the AK which i could potentially get both for 0, 100 for the Mosin and 500 for the AK. I have also flipped around the idea of a Springfield XD or shelling out the big bucks and building my own AR for 00. I’m open to any suggestions from those of you who have a favorite gun or have faced a similar situation as me.
Also in VA it’s legal for me to posses a handgun just not to purchase one. My dad would be more than willing to buy me any handgun I wanted and I have numerous friends I could have buy me ammo. So handguns are part of the picture as well
I cannot afford to pay 10,000 dollars plus all the title II paper work and the 200 dollar tax stamp for an M16 and as much as I love the SCAR-H i believe they cost about 2,500 to 3000 dollars. Remember 0-0
I have six 22lr’s. A pump action, a semi auto rifle, two bolt actions, and for pistols a revolver and an automatic. Also no more shotguns
Seth just reminded me I’m also very interested in a marlin lever action or any other brand someone can recommend

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When I was 15 years old, I was visiting my father in Oklahoma. He had divorced my mom and had married a woman who was a Principal of a school. My family is from the North- Boston. When I was visiting out there, my step mom started getting threatening phone calls and letters. Yankee Go Home. Then she hired some black teachers and all hell broke lose. A burning cross was put on the front lawn.One of the kids keyed a swatstika on her Mercedes. The family dog was stolen- a German shepherd mix.
My dad had guns in the house and taught me how to use them. He had Rugers, Winchesters, military rifles.
He got a retired police dog German Shepherd when the other dog was taken.
My dad began teaching me how to use all the rifles and we went to target practice and ranges.
One night, someone tried to break into the house. I thought I saw the person pull out a hand gun to try and shoot me, so I shot him once in the chest and once in the head.
The family of the person I killed had me brought into court. I was acquitted by a jury on the grounds that it was self defense, the person was an intruder on our property and the person was armed with the intent to commit an armed robbery.
In Oklahoma, I was accepted like I was a local hero. All the Yankee comments stopped once I killed that burgler. The threats stopped against my step mother and the kids had a new found respect for her and my family.
However, for every person I tell up in the Liberal North East in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts, I get a different reaction. You are a vigilante. You were wrong. He was only threatening you with that hand gun. He wouldn’t have shot you. You can’t take the law into your own hands. Many of these people that say this are lawyers and public defenders.
So let me ask you. What if your family had been threatened with death threats on the phone and in the mail? What if your dog had been hauled off in a pick up truck? What if you were facing an armed robber in the dark who was pointing a gun at you?
By the way, the day they buried the man I killed, my step mom’s dog was mysteriously returned out of the back of an unmarked pickup truck.
And I don’t believe you Gig Line. My uncle was a Marine and you are a disgrace to the uniform- and I’ll bet that isn’t even your picture you wimp!

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I thought it was all pretty good and of high quality:

Tokarev Pistol -Pistols don’t win wars, but it was reliable in dirt and dust, unlike the Luger.

Ppsh-41 Submachine Gun: Reliable, Chrome lined barrel, and double the shots of the MP-40.

Moisin-Nagant Rifle: Too long, but no bolt action rifle has reliability problems. Used en bloc clip, but so did half the bolt action military rifles on Earth. Reliable.

DP machine gun. Delicant magazine pan, and magazine had tendency to overheat. Otherwise reliable

The SG-43 Goryunov: Excellent in all ways.

Maxim 1910: 150 pounds with carriage and shield, but reliable.

Soviet Anti Tank Guns: OK, here was a failing. They never developed infantry hollow charge anti tank weapons.

Soviet Artillery: The Soviets had a very effective 76.2mm anti tank gun early in the war which the Germans did not. Soviet 76mm, 122mm and 152 mm field weapons were simple and effective. The 120mm mortar was so good the Germans copied it. 57mm/85mm anti aircraft guns effective.

T-34/76 Tank. Better armor/gun/gun pressure/power/reliablity than Panzer III/IV. And could be produced ten to one.

T-34/85 Tank. Match for Panther/Tiger. And could be produced ten to one.

SU-85/SU/-100/SU-152 Cheap simple, well armored, well armed Assault Guns that were easy to manufacture.

KV-1/Joseph Stalin Tanks: Excellent armor and effective tanks.

Sturmovik: Outstanding Ground Attack Aircraft

Yak-3 /Yak-9
Lavochkin-5/ Lavochkin-7 Fighter Planes-Excellent manueverability and Power. Superior perfomance under 5,000 meters. Somewhat undergunned.

Russian weaknesses were: Very poor training, terrible supply, terrible food/clothing, terrible leadership early in the war, lack of concern over high death rates. But I think most equipment was good.

Russian equipment weaknesses were: No effective high altittude fighter planes (but they didn’t need any), no strategic bombers, no effective Navy or production of escort ships for convoys.

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I was talking to a few guys at the pawn shop the other day about military rifles (it was mostly one of those M-16 debates that never ends) and obviously everyone has their own opinion. Most people will say the M-16 is a weak piece of junk, but to answer this I said that the original M-16 A1 had a few little problems that once ironed out in the newer M-16 A2 (which is used currently) makes a decent rifle. I view it as the "swiss army knife" of rifles because of how versitile they are and the accesories available for them. This older gentleman laughed at me and said there was no such thing as a M-16 "A1" and that I must be confusing it with the older M1A Garand. How do you deal with people who "think" they know more than you and try to discredit you whenever you share your experience? This is just one example of something I find very common in my area.
N.E. Pats I did say "A-1" because I heard him use the term first. You are right, the proper disignation is "Alpha-1" but that confuses some people who were never in the military.

J.D, I in no way think all men are "chauvinistic" or closed minded. All the men at the range are perfect gentlemen, and so are you. Thank you for your answer.
Maker, I know exactly what you’re talking about. Those people are one of the many reasons I got out of the miltary when I did.

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Alright my birthday is this thursday and I know I definitely want to buy this H&R Topper in .410 I’ve been wanting. I might buy another gun and was thinking instead if adding to my shotgun/mail order gun collection I would focus on my military rifles. Now there are two AR-7 rifles at two of my local gun shops [both 0] one is in mint condition by Armalite with a 8 round magazine and original but stock the other one is a Henry Survival rifle that somebody modified to try and make it look like sten gun. it has a non removable skeleton but stock and a 25 round magazine. now in your opinion which AR-7 would rather have and why?

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why is our own govt. shipping military weapons to Iran ?
"
Sanctions are intended in part to frustrate Iran’s efforts to build its military, but the U.S. government’s own figures show at least 8,000 worth of unspecified weapons and other military gear were exported from the United States to Iran during Bush’s time in office. That includes 6,635 in military rifles and ,760 in rifle parts and accessories shipped in 2004, the data shows.

Also shipped to Iran were at least ,000 in "aircraft launching gear and/or deck arrestors," equipment needed to launch jets from aircraft carriers, according to U.S. records. Iran’s navy is not believed to own or operate any carriers."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/08/iran.us.buying.ap/index.html

Why are we arming the axis evil ? That’s feeding evil with evil which would make us an accomplice of evil ?

What’s the reason for arming them when a conflict is possible (soon) ?

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i have heard that you may run into a problem when shooting commercial .308 in old military rifles chambered for 7.62 nato. is the same true when shooting 7.62 nato in a rifle chambered for .308 win. from what i have read the main problem is case stretching in the longer chambered military rifles and the case failing. i do not believe from what i have read i will have a problem in a short chambered rifle designed to use .308. if anyone has anything to add please let me know i am just wanting to confirm my thought and make sure i have fully understood what ihave read about the ammo.
Update:the i have is a new remington 700 sps varminter .308 win. it has a 26" heavy barrel. if this info helps. this is the weapon i wantto fire the 7.62 nato out of. also the rounds are new federal 7.62 x 51mm headstamped lc 08
i do not intend to shoot comercial ammo in a military rifle, i am intending to shoot military ammo in a commercial rifle.

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Arkansas town has 24-hour curfew

HELENA-WEST HELENA, Ark. – Officers armed with military rifles have been stopping and questioning passers-by in a neighborhood plagued by violence that’s been under a 24-hour curfew for a week.

Read more:

http://www.fantasybetszone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40295

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i was thinking about this the other day, so figure you are going to want something that can reliably defend you from anything (bears,humans etc.) so it has to be a high powered caliber. second a semi auto rifle( ak-47, ar-15 etc.) need a magazine to function. what if you lose or break that magazine, then you have to load one round at a time, compared to the bolt action rifle that has an internal magazine that cant be lost. and lastly most military rifles were designed with the idea of hand to hand combat in mind, so they can be equipped with bayonets. Just tell me what you think and if you agree or disagree with me

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a lot of new military rifles are now placing the magazine behind the trigger in or near the stock, to lengthen the barrel and improve accuracy while not making the weapon longer in the process.
is there any disadvantage to doing this, besides any possible awkward reloading? also is there any advantage besides the above mentioned?
and as a side note, is any new info on what the m16 family will be replaced with?
nice replies, so not thinking a replacement any time soon huh? im a bit surprised, though i always knew that the m16′s were underrated by alotta people.

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I love my rifle, (one the best military rifles for accuracy and you can scope it)….Anyway, Does anyone know where I can find an aftermarket stock, or another 6 round magazine, or better yet, an extended magazine for it? oh, is there any ammo I can use in place of the the swiss 7.62×55. (something that is cheaper?)
Thanx!

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I understand that a rusted, worn out, or otherwise degraded barrel can potentially explode or be destroyed upon firing.

Whenever I’ve seen barrels explode, the barrel usually just splits, cracks, and warps and doesn’t suffer from a violent explosion with shrapnel or anything of the sort. Then again, I’ve only witnessed this from an 1879 pattern double barreled shotgun. The type of rifles that are in question are high-power military rifles of the same period, such as the Gewehr 98 and other Mausers.

Thus, what is the extent of the personal danger from firing an old rifle? And, if I were to go walking around a gunshow and had to make an on-the-spot buy, what are the signs of a dangerously degraded (or simply unfirable) barrel that I should look out for?
In response to a few of the answers I’ve seen here, my experience with gunshows is that they often have plastic covering the bolt so that it can’t be opened or closed. I don’t know if I can properly survey the action and barrel like this, or maybe it’s tied in a certain way.

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Lets look at facts.
Switzerland has 2 million publically owned fire arms.
600,000 of which are assult rifles.
500,00 pistols.
every man between 21 and 32 years of age is given a M-57 assult rifle and ammo to keep at home. The Swiss government sells there old military rifles to civilians. The Swiss can boast one of the lowest crime rates in the world and in history. So why is violent crime so rare there and very dominant in countrys with many more gun laws. Gun laws work when it is required to own a gun!!! my source is the BBC if any body is wondering

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I’ve been trying to find out what rifle to get for my first rifle, I would like to spend around, or less than 0, but if it would make that much of a difference I could go higher. Ive looked at standard bolt action rifles, and AR 15 style rifles, Bolt action rifles are cheaper, but don’t seem like they would be fun to shoot unless you have the chance to try and shoot extremely long distances (700+yds) which i don’t. I like the idea of getting an AR 15 rifle, the only problem is they are $$$$, usually 0+. I want an rifle that is fun to shoot at paper targets, fits the bill, can be used for hunting deer, and NOT a WWII X-millitary rifle such as the mouser K98, Im fine with the newer military rifles such as the AR 15. As im looking into what rifle to buy i think i am asking to much. Thanks for your suggestions.

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Dwindling military force’s. The same the country of Switzerland has, AND Switzerland has NEVER been invaded !!!!!
The "Universal Health Care Plan" would work exactly as we have it today, with THE VETERENS health care system, ONLY , ALL AMERICANS MUST serve a minimum of 24 months, in active duty service, then after that 24 months, they go to a yearly one (1) month refresher, combat training course, and THEY KEEP THEIR MILITARY RIFLES FOR LIFE, TO PROTECT THEIR HOMES, FAMILY, AND COUNTRY !!!!
I wager the liberals / leftys / Democrats, do not "cotton" to the idea of having to do military service, themselves.
torop gringo

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